The Gaming Den

Prak_Anima wrote:This is how I found that my atheist, rationalist friend believes that prostitution is inherently exploitative, and that sex is inherently meaningful if it is being done for literally anything other than pure reproduction, and further that he thinks paladins should oppose prostitution of all forms on principle.

If that was indeed in-character, then your friend is the greatest role-player to have ever lived.

Maj wrote:

Prak_Anima wrote:This is how I found that my atheist, rationalist friend believes that prostitution is inherently exploitative, and that sex is inherently meaningful if it is being done for literally anything other than pure reproduction, and further that he thinks paladins should oppose prostitution of all forms on principle.

And you're sure this was your friend's actual beliefs talking, and not the beliefs as interpreted for a paladin?

Shrapnel wrote:If that was indeed in-character, then your friend is the greatest role-player to have ever lived.

Pretty sure it was him, given that, if it were merely him stating that his character was against it, I would hope, he'd just say "my character is against it." Also, it wasn't him roleplaying his character, I don't think, because he was actually getting irritated by the discussion.

Ah, that's too bad.

It's sad when atheists start spouting Christian-influenced dogma, especially when it concerns the worlds oldest profession.

It makes me really want to play a paladin who is a pimp, and does it because he wants to protect people whose choice of work often makes them vulnerable.

You should totally do that. And post what it's like, too.

Shrapnel wrote:Ah, that's too bad.

It's sad when atheists start spouting Christian-influenced dogma, especially when it concerns the worlds oldest profession.

I disagree that this notion of prostitution being inherently exploitive as necessarily derived from Christianity. Granted, assuming he grew up in the US, it would be hard to divorce his social norms from Christianity's influence. But who cares? An atheist can come to the same conclusion as Christian-influenced dogma. It's not all bad.

Atheist thinks pimping is not a good thing, News at 11! Fuck that.

I got into a really weird argument with one of my former roommates sometime before moving out.

I mentioned the sci-fi brothel they're building near Area 51. She kept switching between "prostitutes are abused and exploited and they need to be rescued" to "prostitutes are horrible and manipulative and they need to be jailed".

When I pointed that out, she started crying. The next day, her brother threatened to beat my ass. I told him to eat all the dicks. It was a good day.

Prak_Anima wrote:It makes me really want to play a paladin who is a pimp, and does it because he wants to protect people whose choice of work often makes them vulnerable.

"Pimp Smite!"

erik wrote:

Shrapnel wrote:Ah, that's too bad.

It's sad when atheists start spouting Christian-influenced dogma, especially when it concerns the worlds oldest profession.

I disagree that this notion of prostitution being inherently exploitive as necessarily derived from Christianity. Granted, assuming he grew up in the US, it would be hard to divorce his social norms from Christianity's influence. But who cares? An atheist can come to the same conclusion as Christian-influenced dogma. It's not all bad.

Atheist thinks pimping is not a good thing, News at 11! Fuck that.

I only said Christian-influence because Prak did:

Prak_Anima wrote:This is how I found that my atheist, rationalist friend believes that prostitution is inherently exploitative, and that sex is inherently meaningful if it is being done for literally anything other than pure reproduction, and further that he thinks paladins should oppose prostitution of all forms on principle.

I hate this christian-influence bullshit

Yeah, I only quoted you because yours was most recent and it would've just been a long string if I had quoted the entire train.

Yes, he undoubtedly has been afflicted by Christian influence, but that doesn't make it wrong or the causal reason why he would be coming to the conclusion that pimping doesn't gel with being an instrument of good.

For what it's worth, I have played a free-love paladin back in ye olde Living Greyhawk. He started out as a Bard and multiclassed into Paladin with the crappy Devoted Performer feat. Still, it was good times.

Ok, it seems to stem from abrahamic fear of sex and sexuality. I guess it comes down to more of a society-given preconception that prostitution is a job of last resort for people with no respect for their bodies, and that pimps exploit this unfortunates, rather than it being pretty much the most awesome job one can have that could be considered a form of therapy, which all but demands one have a high body image (how can you sell something you think is crap?), and that pimps could be more agents and protectors.

And that part is influenced by christianity, the societal revulsion/pity aimed towards sex workers. My friend doesn't have to be influenced by christianity himself to be tainted by it, he just has to be influenced by our christianity tainted society. That corruption of socitty's philosophy is the thing that makes so many paladins shitty christian crusaders that are basically Ned Flanders with a sword, and (part of) why Book of Exalted Deeds sucked.

Now I want to play Ned Flanders as a Paladin.

He's definitely strong enough.

Some front for a porn site sent a spam email to my plentyoffish account that I haven't checked for years. That is kind of funny, me paying for porn when she doesn't even have hooves.

Prak_Anima wrote:Ok, it seems to stem from abrahamic fear of sex and sexuality. I guess it comes down to more of a society-given preconception that prostitution is a job of last resort for people with no respect for their bodies, and that pimps exploit this unfortunates, rather than it being pretty much the most awesome job one can have that could be considered a form of therapy, which all but demands one have a high body image (how can you sell something you think is crap?), and that pimps could be more agents and protectors.

And that part is influenced by christianity, the societal revulsion/pity aimed towards sex workers. My friend doesn't have to be influenced by christianity himself to be tainted by it, he just has to be influenced by our christianity tainted society. That corruption of socitty's philosophy is the thing that makes so many paladins shitty christian crusaders that are basically Ned Flanders with a sword, and (part of) why Book of Exalted Deeds sucked.

You are wrong about essentially everything.

First of all, it doesn't make that much sense to talk about "Abrahamic" fear of sex as though it were something special. Yes, there are rules about sex in the bible. Yes, religious authoritarians want to control sex, just as they want to control everything else. However, the patriarchs in the Torah are a bunch of polygamists who have been to spend literally years chasing a hot girl (Jacob), or receive divinely-powered Viagra as one of their miracles (Abram), and are specifically commanded to fuck their way to world domination. There's also an entire book which is nothing but porn. The Talmud doubles down by adding sexual rights for married women. The Christian Gospels are about the son of an unwed mother hanging out with a bunch of prostitutes, and probably boning his disciples in the desert. If you look at the other major religions -- Buddhism and Hinduism--you'll find that in many cases, they are actually more sex-negative than the Abrahamic ones. I mean, these are the religions where having sex will literally drain your superpowers.

Second, pimps do exploit unfortunate who have no other way to make a living. That's basically the entire job description. Happy hookers don't have pimps, they have agents, if they have any support staff at all. Usually they don't.

Third: According to some doctors in Switzerland, 5% of sex workers they steadied had an eating disorder in any given year. Clearly sex work does not magically erase your body image problems.

Fourth: Sex work is not therapy. I'm going to be a therapist. I have been a sex worker. It would be unethical for me to sleep with my patients. Perhaps more importantly, I didn't have a duty of care to my clients. I wasn't called on to put their interests before my own or think about what would best serve their personal growth. I spent my energy worrying about how to get them to give me money.

Fifth: Every society I'm personally aware of has had "revulsion/pity" for sex workers. In Pagan Rome it may have been more socially acceptable to hire a prostitute, but it still wasn't acceptable to be one.

On an unrelated note: rationalists always turn out to believe something offensive and stupid. You should try hanging out with realists or pragmatists.

Listen to Orion. About the idea that sex makes everyone happy: I have had more sex than most of you. Do I seem fucking happy because of that, barrel suckers?

Quality is better than quantity. It is not even a question. And I doubt that sexing people so broken they have to pay for it would be a more positive experience.

Think about it this way: I am an uncoordinated openly misogynistic paraphiliac hulk with a list of issues a mile long. My lovemaking technique has been compared to having a tentacle beast feng xui their abdominal cavity with a cricket bat. And I could get laid for free tonight if I could be arsed to.

Ok, well a bunch of sex workers who actually took part in producing a documentary about the sex industry talked about helping people feel a bit better about themselves for even just a little while. Sorry your colleagues gave me apparently a totally inaccurate impression.

And Count, that's because your partners sucked, and you're apparently better equipped to fuck some manner of large ungulate than anything resembling a human woman.

Also, I know rationalists have a tendency to believe something offensive/stupid. I espouse the point of view that meat is meat and that the point to life is to feed other life, because, biologically speaking, that is almost, if not actually, entirely correct.

Orion wrote:On an unrelated note: rationalists always turn out to believe something offensive and stupid. You should try hanging out with realists or pragmatists.

Is this sentence supposed to make sense? Because all I see is you making gross generalizations about vague labels with multiple meanings.

I have no doubt that those sex workers were sincere. However, "helping people feel better about themselves for a little while" is not what therapists are supposed to do.

Orion wrote:I have no doubt that those sex workers were sincere. However, "helping people feel better about themselves for a little while" is not what therapists are supposed to do.

Ok, fair enough, I unfairly generalized and conflated.

Prak_Anima wrote:the point to life is to feed other life, because, biologically speaking, that is almost, if not actually, entirely correct.

And to fuck willy-nilly so as to create as many offspring as possible before you die so that they in turn can spread your species' genes before we all get eaten by something larger than us.

Enworld sent me an email begging for money. I wonder if I could send them a check for negative dollars and help them go under?

I seem to have found out how my southern heritage asserts itself: I can bread and deep-fry anything and have it turn out delicious. I am glad that it is one of the positive southern traits that I have, because there's a lot of really bad ones.

is it wrong that i am slightly jealous of that ability? <.<

I'm jealous just because I'm terrible at breading. I have never gotten the hang of it.

My shoulder is double-jointed. It doesn't usually cause me too much problems but every once in a while, it'll pop out of socket which hurts like a bitch. My kid was in her baby car seat in the back and started bawling her eyes. I reached back to console her and popped my shoulder out. Of course, since the kid had latched onto my finger and the wife was driving, I just waited the pain out. That really hurt.